Yaron Koren
2013-05-08 14:34:54 UTC
Hi,
I'm turning this into another thread, since I think it's unrelated to the
original topic - I believe the namespace issue is the same regardless of
the form field syntax.
I think it makes sense to keep it as "uploadable" instead of turning it
into a separate input type, because it can have all the variations of
standard text inputs - it can be either a "text" or a "textarea" field, it
can have all the autocompletion options, etc. There's nothing that says
that every value that goes into an "uploadable" field has to be uploaded
with that form; so autocompletion may be useful there.
-Yaron
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Yury Katkov <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> The current implementation seems weird for me too. It's very clear that
> 'uploadable' is a distinct form input and not the parameter of some other
> form input. What was the rational behind that?
> -----
> Yury Katkov, WikiVote
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Jamie Thingelstad <***@thingelstad.com>wrote:
>
>> Just to throw out an alternative suggestion since we are on the topic.
>> What about handling uploadable fields as there own input type? We currently
>> have:
>>
>> {{{field|Image|uploadable|image preview|default=Default website
>> image.png}}}
>>
>> what if it was something like:
>>
>> {{{field|Image|input type=upload|preview|default=Default website
>> image.png}}}
>>
>> It is nice to be able to reuse the generic input type for pages for
>> uploadable content, but, I could see optimizations. Some thoughts:
>>
>>
>> - This would allow the File namespace to be prepended automatically
>> if so desired, considering it a different input type.
>> - It could allow (in the future) for a more pleasant upload
>> experience than the current iframe of the upload form (one of the most
>> confusing aspects of MediaWiki for new users in my experience).
>> - It could allow new things like "this must be a PDF" with "require
>> filetype=pdf" or something.
>>
>>
>> Just an idea. It "feels" like a good direction to me. And backwards
>> compatibility could be maintained for some period of time.
>> Jamie Thingelstad <http://www.thingelstad.com/>
>> ***@thingelstad.com
>> mobile: 612-810-3699
>> find me on AIM Twitter <http://twitter.com/thingles> Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/thingles>
>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jthingelstad>
>>
>> On May 8, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Yaron Koren <***@wikiworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> I suppose that's true... although in practice I've never seen values get
>> prepended with anything other than a namespace. You could have a field
>> containing all subpage names, of course, but I've never seen that done, and
>> on a "semantic" level it doesn't really make sense to do that. On the other
>> hand, maybe that simpler wording would be clearer for users.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Yury Katkov <***@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> > And also given that, a single checkbox that says "Uploadable?"
>>> probably wouldn't be enough - the better option would probably be to have a
>>> new form input for each template field (in the "Edit schema" form) that
>>> said something like "This field always links to pages in this namespace
>>> (leave blank if none): _____".
>>>
>>> Hmm. The caption you've proposed is only about namespaces now. What
>>> about: "Prepend the field value with the following text" ? This way we will
>>> broad the usecase further.
>>> -----
>>> Yury Katkov, WikiVote
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Yaron Koren <***@wikiworks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Yury,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that's what I was proposing before, but I'm no longer proposing
>>>> it. :)
>>>>
>>>> -Yaron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Yury Katkov <***@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yaron, I reread your idea but I'm not sure that I got it right
>>>>> Do you propose to automatically add "File:" text in the beginning of
>>>>> uploaded filename like here?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/MU31Tw9.png
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Yury Katkov, WikiVote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Jamie Thingelstad <
>>>>> ***@thingelstad.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Yaron,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that having to add the namespace in the template is
>>>>>> confusing, but my initial reaction to adding "File:" if it is set to
>>>>>> uploadable is no. Perhaps I'm being overly pedantic, but I think of a
>>>>>> property for a page that is targeting a different namespace, most commonly
>>>>>> I see this with a User page. If you have a field that you "default=current
>>>>>> user" you need to add the namespace to that to link back to the user page.
>>>>>> I realize that's a little apples and oranges, but still comes to mind for
>>>>>> me. Or "values from namespace=" which if I'm remembering right doesn't
>>>>>> prepend the namespace, also requiring the template to add it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, perhaps it is worth considering more sweeping changes that add
>>>>>> namespace clarification to a lot of things, but that would probably just
>>>>>> introduce equal confusion the other way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My $0.02.
>>>>>> Jamie Thingelstad <http://www.thingelstad.com/>
>>>>>> ***@thingelstad.com
>>>>>> mobile: 612-810-3699
>>>>>> find me on AIM Twitter <http://twitter.com/thingles> Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/thingles>
>>>>>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jthingelstad>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Yaron Koren <***@wikiworks.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about my suggestion?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm also curious if anyone else has an opinion on having "uploadable"
>>>>>> fields add the "File:" to file names. This would be a somewhat big change,
>>>>>> so people may have opinions on it one way or another.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Yury Katkov <***@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For now I can just add some lines of code to the form generator: if
>>>>>>> uploadable option is here it will generate [[property::File:filename]]
>>>>>>> instead of just [[property::filename]].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've proposed checkbox solution because of the folowing. In my
>>>>>>> opinion Page Schemas can be great visual tool to edit forms and templates
>>>>>>> very quicky. Now the editing of the schema slows because I have to look up
>>>>>>> tag parameters. More buttons, dropdowns and checkboxes could speed up the
>>>>>>> editing process.
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Yury Katkov, WikiVote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Yaron Koren <***@wikiworks.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Yury,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hm, that's true... I hadn't thought of that. Some checkbox could be
>>>>>>>> added to the Page Schemas form, but maybe the better solution is just to
>>>>>>>> have uploadable fields in SF start adding a "File:" to the beginning of
>>>>>>>> file names they've uploaded. It's something that various people have asked
>>>>>>>> about, but I never took that seriously - I liked the "cleanliness" of not
>>>>>>>> including the namespace, and just having the file name. But maybe that
>>>>>>>> cleanliness is more trouble than it's worth - I know that, even without
>>>>>>>> this Page Schemas issue, the fact that a "File:" needs to be added to the
>>>>>>>> template has caused a considerable amount of confusion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The main counter-argument might be that this approach is already in
>>>>>>>> place on a lot of wikis, so making a change to the upload setup would
>>>>>>>> require people to change a lot of existing pages; but then again,
>>>>>>>> backward-compatibility can't be a reason to never make a change, and the
>>>>>>>> Replace Text extension might be able to help with that sort of thing anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Yaron
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Yury Katkov <***@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Yaron, all!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's possible now to create uploadable fields in forms via
>>>>>>>>> PageSchemas: we just create a Page property and specifily the field as
>>>>>>>>> uploadable in additional paramerest. There is however an issue.
>>>>>>>>> When I generate the templates I need the File namespace to be
>>>>>>>>> added in front of the filename:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [[someproperty::File:MyCoolPicture.jpg]]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Instead I have the following:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [[someproperty::MyCoolPicture.jpg]]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and my image not appears on the page.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yaron, what's your advice on how to better handle that in a
>>>>>>>>> PageSchemas if I want to add this feature? What about adding a checkbox
>>>>>>>>> "uploadable" to the Field definition?
>>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>> Yury Katkov, WikiVote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>>>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and
>>>>>> their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed
>>>>>> leaders in the field. The early access version is available now.
>>>>>> Download your free book today!
>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>>>>>> Semediawiki-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Semediawiki-***@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>
--
WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
I'm turning this into another thread, since I think it's unrelated to the
original topic - I believe the namespace issue is the same regardless of
the form field syntax.
I think it makes sense to keep it as "uploadable" instead of turning it
into a separate input type, because it can have all the variations of
standard text inputs - it can be either a "text" or a "textarea" field, it
can have all the autocompletion options, etc. There's nothing that says
that every value that goes into an "uploadable" field has to be uploaded
with that form; so autocompletion may be useful there.
-Yaron
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Yury Katkov <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> The current implementation seems weird for me too. It's very clear that
> 'uploadable' is a distinct form input and not the parameter of some other
> form input. What was the rational behind that?
> -----
> Yury Katkov, WikiVote
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Jamie Thingelstad <***@thingelstad.com>wrote:
>
>> Just to throw out an alternative suggestion since we are on the topic.
>> What about handling uploadable fields as there own input type? We currently
>> have:
>>
>> {{{field|Image|uploadable|image preview|default=Default website
>> image.png}}}
>>
>> what if it was something like:
>>
>> {{{field|Image|input type=upload|preview|default=Default website
>> image.png}}}
>>
>> It is nice to be able to reuse the generic input type for pages for
>> uploadable content, but, I could see optimizations. Some thoughts:
>>
>>
>> - This would allow the File namespace to be prepended automatically
>> if so desired, considering it a different input type.
>> - It could allow (in the future) for a more pleasant upload
>> experience than the current iframe of the upload form (one of the most
>> confusing aspects of MediaWiki for new users in my experience).
>> - It could allow new things like "this must be a PDF" with "require
>> filetype=pdf" or something.
>>
>>
>> Just an idea. It "feels" like a good direction to me. And backwards
>> compatibility could be maintained for some period of time.
>> Jamie Thingelstad <http://www.thingelstad.com/>
>> ***@thingelstad.com
>> mobile: 612-810-3699
>> find me on AIM Twitter <http://twitter.com/thingles> Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/thingles>
>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jthingelstad>
>>
>> On May 8, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Yaron Koren <***@wikiworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> I suppose that's true... although in practice I've never seen values get
>> prepended with anything other than a namespace. You could have a field
>> containing all subpage names, of course, but I've never seen that done, and
>> on a "semantic" level it doesn't really make sense to do that. On the other
>> hand, maybe that simpler wording would be clearer for users.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Yury Katkov <***@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> > And also given that, a single checkbox that says "Uploadable?"
>>> probably wouldn't be enough - the better option would probably be to have a
>>> new form input for each template field (in the "Edit schema" form) that
>>> said something like "This field always links to pages in this namespace
>>> (leave blank if none): _____".
>>>
>>> Hmm. The caption you've proposed is only about namespaces now. What
>>> about: "Prepend the field value with the following text" ? This way we will
>>> broad the usecase further.
>>> -----
>>> Yury Katkov, WikiVote
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Yaron Koren <***@wikiworks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Yury,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that's what I was proposing before, but I'm no longer proposing
>>>> it. :)
>>>>
>>>> -Yaron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Yury Katkov <***@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yaron, I reread your idea but I'm not sure that I got it right
>>>>> Do you propose to automatically add "File:" text in the beginning of
>>>>> uploaded filename like here?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/MU31Tw9.png
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Yury Katkov, WikiVote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Jamie Thingelstad <
>>>>> ***@thingelstad.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Yaron,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that having to add the namespace in the template is
>>>>>> confusing, but my initial reaction to adding "File:" if it is set to
>>>>>> uploadable is no. Perhaps I'm being overly pedantic, but I think of a
>>>>>> property for a page that is targeting a different namespace, most commonly
>>>>>> I see this with a User page. If you have a field that you "default=current
>>>>>> user" you need to add the namespace to that to link back to the user page.
>>>>>> I realize that's a little apples and oranges, but still comes to mind for
>>>>>> me. Or "values from namespace=" which if I'm remembering right doesn't
>>>>>> prepend the namespace, also requiring the template to add it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, perhaps it is worth considering more sweeping changes that add
>>>>>> namespace clarification to a lot of things, but that would probably just
>>>>>> introduce equal confusion the other way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My $0.02.
>>>>>> Jamie Thingelstad <http://www.thingelstad.com/>
>>>>>> ***@thingelstad.com
>>>>>> mobile: 612-810-3699
>>>>>> find me on AIM Twitter <http://twitter.com/thingles> Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/thingles>
>>>>>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jthingelstad>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 7, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Yaron Koren <***@wikiworks.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about my suggestion?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm also curious if anyone else has an opinion on having "uploadable"
>>>>>> fields add the "File:" to file names. This would be a somewhat big change,
>>>>>> so people may have opinions on it one way or another.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Yury Katkov <***@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For now I can just add some lines of code to the form generator: if
>>>>>>> uploadable option is here it will generate [[property::File:filename]]
>>>>>>> instead of just [[property::filename]].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've proposed checkbox solution because of the folowing. In my
>>>>>>> opinion Page Schemas can be great visual tool to edit forms and templates
>>>>>>> very quicky. Now the editing of the schema slows because I have to look up
>>>>>>> tag parameters. More buttons, dropdowns and checkboxes could speed up the
>>>>>>> editing process.
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Yury Katkov, WikiVote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Yaron Koren <***@wikiworks.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Yury,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hm, that's true... I hadn't thought of that. Some checkbox could be
>>>>>>>> added to the Page Schemas form, but maybe the better solution is just to
>>>>>>>> have uploadable fields in SF start adding a "File:" to the beginning of
>>>>>>>> file names they've uploaded. It's something that various people have asked
>>>>>>>> about, but I never took that seriously - I liked the "cleanliness" of not
>>>>>>>> including the namespace, and just having the file name. But maybe that
>>>>>>>> cleanliness is more trouble than it's worth - I know that, even without
>>>>>>>> this Page Schemas issue, the fact that a "File:" needs to be added to the
>>>>>>>> template has caused a considerable amount of confusion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The main counter-argument might be that this approach is already in
>>>>>>>> place on a lot of wikis, so making a change to the upload setup would
>>>>>>>> require people to change a lot of existing pages; but then again,
>>>>>>>> backward-compatibility can't be a reason to never make a change, and the
>>>>>>>> Replace Text extension might be able to help with that sort of thing anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Yaron
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Yury Katkov <***@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Yaron, all!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's possible now to create uploadable fields in forms via
>>>>>>>>> PageSchemas: we just create a Page property and specifily the field as
>>>>>>>>> uploadable in additional paramerest. There is however an issue.
>>>>>>>>> When I generate the templates I need the File namespace to be
>>>>>>>>> added in front of the filename:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [[someproperty::File:MyCoolPicture.jpg]]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Instead I have the following:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [[someproperty::MyCoolPicture.jpg]]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and my image not appears on the page.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yaron, what's your advice on how to better handle that in a
>>>>>>>>> PageSchemas if I want to add this feature? What about adding a checkbox
>>>>>>>>> "uploadable" to the Field definition?
>>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>> Yury Katkov, WikiVote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>>>>>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and
>>>>>> their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed
>>>>>> leaders in the field. The early access version is available now.
>>>>>> Download your free book today!
>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may_______________________________________________
>>>>>> Semediawiki-devel mailing list
>>>>>> Semediawiki-***@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>
--
WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com